March 9, 2009 by

Okay, Kids…It’s Discussion Time!!!

7 comments

Categories: food for thought, theological questions

Here’s a question for us to discuss:

With all the stories we can recount of how various church leaders have been corrupt, controlling, dishonest, and considering all the people who have been wounded by such leaders…

Do you believe that human leadership in the church is Biblical? Or is Jesus our only Shepherd? Why? or Why not?

Say your piece, but be nice. 🙂

…Oh, c’mon, you have to have an opinion on this. Don’t keep us waiting…

Musician. Composer. Recovering perfectionist. Minister-in-transition. Lover of puns. Hijacker of rock song references. Questioner of the status quo. I'm not really a rebel. Just a sincere Christ-follower with a thirst for significance that gets me into trouble. My quest has taken me over the fence of institutional Christianity. Here are some of my random thoughts along the way. Read along, join in the conversation. Just be nice.

7 Responses to Okay, Kids…It’s Discussion Time!!!

  1. glenn

    We will always have leaders in the church whether they have a title or not. There will always people who influence the rest of us. Of course, there are leaders and there are leaders. Ghandhi and Hitler were both leaders.

    What about paid leaders? I have no problem if there are worthy and if they are equipping others for ministry.

    The real problem, I think, is expectations. Most pastors have a wide array of unreasonable expectations placed upon them and they are usually at the mercy of some governing body. If they screw up, they’re out. Hence, they are isolated and that is where so many problems develop. Pastors tend to be needy, adrenalin junkies, who need to be needed and have nobody with whom they can be honest.

    Yes, human leadership is biblical. Of course, we can’t quite agree on exactly what that leadership structure is. I wonder if it is mandated for all of history or a cultural, historical snapshot. (I have been leaning toward the later.)

    Forsaking hierarchy and flattening structure is not only trendy, I think it takes us closer to the church’s roots and effectiveness in our time.

  2. Sarah

    Barb asks an important question, and I think it’s going in the same direction I would go when thinking about “leadership.”

    I think leadership is kind of this secondary byproduct of something else: the embodiment of love, service, maturity, and wisdom. If someone exhibits the Spirit-life of Jesus, they will draw others into a hunger and desire toward Jesus as well; to imitate them as they imitate Christ.

    But we tend to think of “leadership” first, rather than as a byproduct. We think in terms of “what makes a good leader?” and “What kind of leader was Jesus?” These are the wrong questions, if you ask me.

    People don’t try to be more relational so that they can be a good leader. People who are relational and love others – lead. To me, leading is modeling. And continuously pointing people to Jesus. When asked for it, counsel can be given, but ultimately, people must learn to hear God for themselves – or else our “leadership” is just retarding their own development.

    And as they hear and grow in God, they will be naturally inspiring (leading) others behind them too. We all lead and follow at the same time. But, ultimately, we must be following Jesus. We may be inspired and encouraged to find out that God is speaking similar things to others in the Body (whether visible figures or not), but we don’t follow those people. We are following Jesus. Huge difference! And then, if we are doing that, trendiness doesn’t really matter.

    Sorry, I don’t think I answered your question! But I think leadership is an organic social phenomenon that occurs naturally – not a positional/titled type deal. 🙂

  3. turnyourears

    i think what Glenn says is right – we place unnecessary expectations on our pastors as leaders.

    i DO think that there is biblical basis for authority in the church "some of you will be apostles… teachers" (Eph 4:11) & "obey your leaders" (Heb 13)

    this to me suggests that there will be people with a certain authority in certain areas.

    however, i don't think that a pastor should have absolute authority over every area of life, or even in the church.

    for example, a professional architect serving on the church board will be better equipped to make informed decisions regarding the church's upcoming renovations.

    i think it's unfair to place the burden of the final decision on the pastor. and i also think it's unbiblical to do so.

    that's also why i appreciate my church (methodist) leadership structure, which is based around lay committees. sure, we're slow in making decisions, but we feel it's more important to make the right ones.

  4. Alan Knox

    Do you believe that human leadership in the church is Biblical?

    “Biblical” human leadership in the church is biblical. 🙂 What I mean is that type of leadership that Jesus encouraged – serving instead of being served, being under instead of over, being a slave inster of a master – is biblical and important for the church.

    Or is Jesus our only Shepherd?

    Yes, Jesus is our only shepherd (pastor). In fact, Peter calls Jesus our Senior Pastor (chief shepherd). On the other hand, Jesus often uses other people to shepherd us. Anyone who cares for us and helps us follow Jesus is shepherding (pastoring) us.

    -Alan

  5. Jeff McQ

    Thanks to all who have commented so far–excellent thoughts, all–and the discussion is still open, so feel free to chime in, if you haven’t.

    I’ll be posting my thoughts on this in a new post, probably later today. Wait for it… 🙂

  6. Steve Oberg

    Is it Biblical – Yes and No. Jesus told Peter to feed His sheep. That’s it. As for Paul, he set up a leadership structure in the communities that were established along his journeys, but I don’t believe it looked much like what we have today in most places.
    In my experience, we should stay clear of guys who “want” to be pastors. The problem is, a lot the folks who should be pastors are the one’s who don’t want to… again in my opinion. What we have today is a lot of “positional” authority and less of the “servant-leadership” that was modeled by Jesus.

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