Heather began her latest post with a monologue of hype many of us churched folks have heard–about going to the next level, getting fresh vision…well, heck, read it for yourself:
“I’ve decided. I’m going to the next level in God. I’m going to be empowered by an incredible, enthusiastic, visionary leader and take this city for Christ. I’m going to be a vibrant, passionate, charismatic believer who takes excellence seriously. I’m joining a vibrant, contemporary, growing church with a powerful message that impacts the world and has a vision statement that involves loving life, loving people and loving God. I’m getting connected to a small group that will move me into that next level and take me into the unknown, teaching me to drink that living water and walk by faith. I have a vision for this nation, I’m going to see revival sweep across this land.”
In case you were wondering, this was parody. She went on to qualify it; you can read the rest of it for yourself here.
Anyhow, this kind of talk used to stir my soul. Now it makes me want to choke on whatever it is I might be drinking at the moment. (It’s water, in case you were wondering.) Thing is, I used to be the chief spokesperson for this sort of thing. You see, as a pastor, I was pretty much brought up to gearing everything around a vision, and getting people to buy into the vision. I truly believed that the thing that should gather people together was the vision, and the vision was the most important thing–not the people. (You can imagine what happens when vision is more important than the people supporting it.) Anyhow, what it boiled down to was that I was a salesperson for whatever vision we were spouting. And I suck at sales.
It’s not that the things in Heather’s parody-paragraph are bad. I’d like to see revival sweep across the land, and all that. It’s that the statement itself is so loaded with hype. I’ve gotten so I have no tolerance for “Christian-ese”–and that’s probably the main reason why I am so uncomfortable in institutional settings, especially of the more charismatic flavor I come from.
I just found out this past week about a fresh outpouring in Lakeland, Florida, revival meetings that have been going on for about a month now, with thousands of people coming nightly, and many people being healed. It’s already being talked up as a new outpouring of the caliber of what happened in Toronto and Pensacola in the ’90s. And at times I feel totally guilty, because I have absolutely no interest in it.
Am I just completely jaded? Have I totally lost my passion?
It’s not that I don’t believe in healing, or that people are genuinely experiencing God. I believe God still shows up at such events, because His heart is to touch people wherever they are. And I love and hunger for God’s presence, and I am genuinely happy that people are being healed. But from the little bit I’ve seen on the web, I still see so much Christian-ese hype woven in. The lingo, the vocal inflections, the crowd interaction, all looks like so much more of the same to me. That’s not the God part; that’s the part we do because it’s familiar. Do we have to have all the extra religious stuff added in? Why can’t we just have the Jesus part?
I have a really hard time believing that when Jesus walked through the crowds healing everyone, it looked like this.
I’m not really saying this to be critical, because I have no reason to doubt the genuineness of people’s hearts here–or even the genuineness of the miracles that are happening. I’m just saying I’m hungry for something more. I’m looking for Jesus without the religion. I’m looking for Him in the unlikely places. I know what that scene looks like, and how it feels. I can’t help this gnawing feeling that we could have all this and more, without the religious trappings that make it feel like more of the same. And I can’t help but feel that if we could find a way to take our Christian-ese, churchy habits out of the equation, we might reach more sinners than saints.
If I could find something like that…I’d jump at the chance to be part of it.
Wayward Son
Musician. Composer. Recovering perfectionist. Minister-in-transition. Lover of puns. Hijacker of rock song references. Questioner of the status quo.
I'm not really a rebel. Just a sincere Christ-follower with a thirst for significance that gets me into trouble. My quest has taken me over the fence of institutional Christianity. Here are some of my random thoughts along the way. Read along, join in the conversation. Just be nice.
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Man, do I relate!
I’m hungry for more. More of the supernatural in a more natural environment. In a more relational environment.
I’m excited about what God is doing, because He is manifesting His love to a beloved people. But I also feel like He’s calling me to something that looks quite different than those forms. A more naturally supernatural lifestyle. Healing and miracles and all of it are definitely part of normal Christianity. (Perhaps we don’t *really* believe that, which is why we make such a fuss about it here in North America – like it’s special, and only happens at special times through special people).
Sorting through the mixture, we try to hold fast to what’s good.
Jeff,
Me too. And how do we separate such “outpourings” from “mass hysteria?”
Having seen the results of one outpouring in the early 1970s in Dallas that led to me following Jesus I believe it is possible.
-Sam
Great thoughts Jeff. I can relate. It is tough to react positively to churchy behavior when it has caused a great deal of personal havoc.
Part of my journey has been learning to stand for the few things that I hold most dear (ie. Christ, authentic relationships, the “no BS” rule, etc.).
Peace.
Sarah, Sam, Jeff,
Thanks for your comments.
In continuing to process my own feelings on this…I realize that in times past I have jumped on the bandwagon for each new wave like this, and there *was* good from it. But this time, I guess I have this sense that I am to look another direction, to look for God to show up in less familiar environments. At any rate, by now I’m so turned off by churchy behavior that I think the experience would be ruined for me.
That’s no slam on those who are receiving. Praise God for what they are receiving. Just not gonna walk that way this time. Gonna see what else God is doing.
Sarah–what a great point you made. Maybe we make such a big deal about “revival” because we suffer a deficit of the supernatural so much of the time.
You’re definitely not jaded, Jeff. I would say you’ve been hit by a little dose of reality. I think that’s a definite good thing 🙂
My husband is a salesman. He said for years he could easily do the pastor-as-CEO-and-chief-vision-caster job. He said it’s exactly the same as selling cars. Get people emotionally involved. Use a few theatrics. Make them care about the product, and feel the urgency of the situation. Same formula, different product. Honestly, half of what is said in churches would be perfect in a Personal Enrichment Seminar. Didn’t Jesus come to subvert all that? Sit at the bottom of the table instead of the head, and all that other pesky stuff.
It’s amazing what happens when pastors step away from the vision and step towards a real pastoral role – nurturing, feeding, growing. You’re probably living proof of that 🙂 I know my pastor is.
I have been thinking about this post today. You have described being post-charismatic. While we still believe in and desire the supernatural, we are no longer willing to condone the hoopla that goes along with it all.
Most of the hoopla is due to the nature of celebrity/platform ministry. What if the end result of supernatural ministry didn’t reflect on any particular minister or church?
We have operated under the idea that revival would come to the church and then pour out into the streets. But it doesn’t happen that way. We chase after repeated blessings for ourselves and eventually the outpouring stagnates.
I think the emerging/missional trend is part of God’s movement of his people out into the streets and other ordinary-life ministry. Hopefully, when the charismatic believers take supernatural ministry out of the church building, we will see a completely new kind of revival among the sinners rather than the saints.
Heather–smart man, your husband. 🙂 Thanks for the input.
Grace,
Your remarks remind me of a prophetic word spoken by one of our mentors over our home group during a season when we were tarrying together for a fresh outpouring from God. The message (paraphrased) was that the glory we were seeking wasn’t going to occur as we cloistered in a living room, but would occur outside the walls, as we gave out what we had already received. Looking back, I can see this message was very instrumental in changing our entire outlook on church in general.
This was before we had ever heard the terms “missional” or “emergent.”
Thanks for sharing that.
I can relate to this so much…but unfortunately I think I’m jaded. It’s all been built up so much for me and then I’ve never experienced any of the real outpouring or healing that others say they have. I don’t even know if I believe it can happen anymore. Maybe I have experienced it, but it wasn’t such a big deal…maybe I missed it all together? I don’t want to think of my God as disappointing or not living up to expectations, so I just don’t really have any right now. I think I’ve heard a hundred sermons on having to expect things from God. “Come to church and expect to feel Him, expect Him to move, etc…” It just hasn’t happened for me yet. I know I was reeled in by all of the hype. Why I’m still here is God’s purpose I suppose! Yes…I’m jaded.
I completely understand the feeling. My friends who still “go to church” always feel the need to tell me all about all the great services they had or whatever. Usually with some description of a fantastic altar call or something. At first I felt guilty . Not because I wasn’t there, but because I didn’t care. I have learned over time that doesn’t diminish who I am as a Christian. As a matter of fact I have come to believe that those type of services are more about emotions than real spirituality. I could be wrong about that. Regardless I feel like those type of services actually served to be a detriment to my walk with Jesus in the long run because they made me feel good for a short time, but emotion wears off.
Jeff,
if you are jaded then think we all are by this religious machine men have constructed.
I know exactly what you are saying about “feeling guilty for not caring”. I so relate.
I have a few people who I would call friends who speak this “Christian-ese” and they all lose me every time the catch-phrases start to flow.
There are certain words or phrases that are worse than others. I was once addicted to the hype of a charismatic church setting. I had to be there and it was like a fuel gauge in my spirit (so I thought) that would be full after a really emotionally uplifting service and low after a few days of life.
What a bunch of crap that was.
That is why I see what I used to call “going to church” as such a self centered thing. I would have told you at the time that I was there to honor God.
But really it was about me, my emotional needs and *my* personal desires.
Looking back it seems very empty..
“the next level” – makes me physically nauseous to hear that.
“take this city for Christ” – funny…I thought Jesus would be more interested in people than real estate…
“blahda, blahda, blahda” – what I normally hear when people start talking that way around me now.
A friend of mine and I have this inside joke where I told him of a phone conversation that I had. But as I was relating the story to him, I added on the last few sentences as a joke. This post made me think of it, because it is somewhat related to this topic. The phone conversation goes like this:
Me: Hello, Generic Cable Company?
Them: Yes?
Me: I need you guys to come out and work on my cable today because my favorite show is coming on tonight and my cable isn’t working.
Them: The earliest we can be there is Monday.
Me: I really need you guys to come out today.
Them: Sorry.
Me: Listen! I’m a Blood-Bought, Born-Again, Bible-believing Child of the King, that walks in blessing!
Pause….
Them: It’ll still be Monday.
In real life, after he said it would be Monday the first time, I said okay, but as I was relating the story to Jim, I ad-libbed the rest of the conversation. So whenever we hear someone talking like that, my friend and I just look at each other and say, “It’ll still be Monday.”
Jeff,
I like what I read this morning regarding the often misquoted line from Karl Marx, ‘That religion was the opiate of the masses.’
That religion is but a symptom of a dis-ease, not the disease itself.
I find it most interesting that the opiates we have all imbibed in have done exactly what they were designed to do, give us a momentary buzz, fix, high, until it begins to wear off.
I found it most humorous in typing in the word verification to post this, the first 3 letters were LSD 🙂
For some its been a very, very long time swallowing daily their ‘gos-pills’, without them there is no buzz-fix-passion etc.
Is it possible that Jesus is the most passionate lover in the universe, and him calling us to be wholly-holy His, and is he the source of ALL passion, and is he able to birth in us as a result of him making love to my heart a passion that has nothing to do with gimmicks-fixes-tips and techniques?
Jeff, for what its worth to you, I would say you are in the throes (A severe pang or spasm of pain, as in childbirth-throes A condition of agonizing struggle or trouble
of the Passionate One making Himself known to you!
Only He is able to make it real and clearly defined to us, and in us the difference of truly Knowing Him, verses wearing the stinking grave clothes of having a form of religion, but blinded to His power…and when I say ‘power’ I see that word defined in God IS LOVE!
Rich
Wow–great comments, everyone. Thanks.
Wanting more,
Thanks for the honesty. My two cents’ worth is–it’s okay that you are jaded, and God can handle that. What’s important here is that, as you alluded, your story isn’t over. I think sometimes we get jaded because too often church meetings urge us to seek an *experience* rather than a *person.* And some people can see past the hype more quickly than others, which leads to the disappointment you described. Not to toss a “Bible nugget” at you (it’s just easier to give the reference)–Jer. 29:13. This verse has meant a lot to me for a long time.
Rule Breaker,
I relate to what you’re saying. One thing I do believe as a counter-balance is that there is nothing wrong with involving emotion in a spiritual experience. When we see ourselves as whole people (not the spirit/soul/body division), we see that God gave us emotions, and they can be wonderful in connecting with Him. (I can’t imagine some of the “lament” psalms being written stoically.) I think what can mess us up is when emotions get manipulated by something that isn’t real, when they rule us, or when we use them as a gauge of how close we are to God. You can see how all three of those easily happen in the church setting. Anyhow–great remarks. I checked your blog, too, and appreciated your honesty there.
Shaun,
Good point there about how we “go to church” for selfish reasons. I think we’ve all been guilty of that at one time or other.
Aaron,
LOL!
Rich,
Thanks for the remarks. As I look at my own heart, I think what’s happened is that Christ *did* reveal Himself to me as the “Passionate Lover”, and I encountered Him in a way that spoiled me for the ordinary. Part of my journey since that initial encounter has been a desire to live in that reality, and a disappointment that so much of what “church” entails doesn’t line up with how He revealed Himself. There’s so much of it that simply doesn’t contain the signature of God.
I just found your blog for the first time. Every word in your post so resonated with me that you could have just signed my name to it and none of my friends would ever have believed I didn’t write it. 🙂
Just this morning I was watching a video on Rick Joyner’s web site (a friend sent me the link and told me I’d “love it!”). It’s a 3-minute or so clip about what is “breaking out”at their church right now. and it’s everything that was at Toronto. I felt sick to my stomach watching it. Mostly because I used to be so involved in it. Seeing it just made me realize how shallow it feels to me now. Having been on staff at a church when all this went on there, well, let’s just say I’ve had my fill….
I want a new level all right–but it’s lower, not higher. I want greater humility and love in my heart and life, not higher planes of “spiritual” experiences.
I know you know what I mean. So glad I’ve “found” you!
I saw a new post from you on my google reader and said, “No Jeff – not another one today, I’m still processing the Jaded one from yesterday. Thankfully you did not break my brain with today’s post.
I loved this one. I find myself squarely smack in the middle of your post here. As I read accounts of healings and have experienced some of those very things in my former life I don’t want to discredit or distance myself from what is going on. But I just don’t have the stomach for it right now. (I guess I need healing huh? – Stomach pain)
Still chewing on this though and loved what you and Heather wrote.
Thanks
Tracy,
Thanks for the remarks, and glad you found us, too. 🙂
Barb,
Thank you for taking the risk of brain-breakage and reading it anyway. 🙂
Jaded, my friend. Definitely jaded!!! 😉 I am, as Grace termed it, “post-charistmatic” as well. And when I choke, it’s usually on a glass of wine. Hah.
I sometimes get into conversations with people who are in that old charistmatic place–from which I used to operated–and if they start sharing that they are concerned about my spiritual well-being, I make ever attempt to give them even more cause to be concerned… just to rock their world. It’s not very nice of me, I know. But I feel that there are some control issues stongly prevailing in the midst of that arena. And I somehow enjoy pressing those buttons which is why I enjoy blogs like Brant’s Letters from Kamp Krusty.
Oohh I think I feel a blog post coming on…
Hi Jeff 🙂
Disclaimer (please forgive me for the humongous generalizations I’m about to make)
At the risk of sounding jaded myself, I would say that God doesn’t need public relations to do what He does in the earth.
I can’t help but think about the miracles, signs and wonders occurring every day all over the world that we don’t know anything about. The trouble is, many of us in the western world do not know how to ‘do’ church, outside of gatherings, and we struggle with maintaining passion for Christ if we stop ‘conferencing’
What would happen if we asked God to heal us at the grocery store? Or maybe in a bathroom stall in the middle of a busy shopping day at the mall?
When He heals us there…there’s no cameras, no witnesses and. no proof that He heals today! 🙂
No good promo for the next venue…
If I pray for my sick daughter in a quiet hospital room as she lay dying, and God hears my prayer and heals her, I can then go to church and tell the good news that God heals…
The response is…Yes and Amen! Praise the Lord!
If someone with a big name in Christian culture heals my daughter (in Jesus name) in a mega-meeting…pandemonium!
Why? Why is that more special?
Is it because the invisible Jesus showed up without 20 intercessors fasting and praying for 2 weeks in preparation for His arrival?
Is it because it was free?
(My daughter had meningitis when she was 4, the doctors told me it was over and to say goodbye, I prayed… she is now 21 and I’m a grandmother… He heals)
I can’t find a single principal in scripture that even suggests Gods power is more accessible at meetings. And… I don’t recall reading about the beautiful worship music being played as Jesus healed the blind or raised people from the dead.
So why all the hype; I believe we do this because we want to take credit somehow… just a little bit. If we can say “I was there…I saw it happen” this makes us feel good about ourselves…just a little bit.
More often than not however, at the end of the day, we hear more about the preacher who did the praying than we hear the name of Christ.
Lately, it seems to me, the only time I hear His name is as its ‘used’ in prayer.
Jesus is the one who heals and we cry out “praise be to God”…but I wonder if we really mean that.