Can we tawlk? (That’s “talk” in Brooklynese.)
I’ve come to a rather interesting, embarrassing and disturbing realization about all my years growing up in institutional church. In spending much of my childhood, and most of my adult life, inside the walls of churches…in gaining favor in church circles…in becoming a leader in church…in having a burgeoning ministry “career”…
…I never really liked church services.
Gasp!
It’s true. Oh, I enjoyed it enough when I had something to do; I enjoyed playing the piano, leading worship, doing “my thing”. And I truly love to experience God’s presence, especially in the context of worship. Those parts are great.
But sitting through the church meeting itself? Never really did it for me.
Honestly, I never got up on Sunday and said to myself, “I’m really looking forward to the sermon today,” or, “I am looking forward to the liturgy,” or even, “I’m looking forward to the music.” (Unless, of course, I was doing the music. I know that sounds terrible; I’m not really narcissistic. Like I said…I liked it when I had something to do.)
But here’s the interesting part: although I didn’t particularly enjoy church services, I did look forward to going to church. Do you know what my favorite part of church was–and still is?
The people.
To me, the best parts of church were before and after the service, hanging out and talking with people I loved, and who loved me back. I hated to be late for church; I wanted to go early so I could find my friends and catch up with them. And I loved to stay after church as long as I could, and maybe go to the restaurant for lunch afterward. As a teenager, I can remember being at church all day on Sunday–a group of us would just stay after the morning service and hang out together all afternoon until the evening service.
For most of my experience, though–both as a child and as an adult–the services were basically something we just put up with, a sacred duty to perform until we could get to the “fun” part. I think many of us felt that way, although it wouldn’t have been deemed proper to admit it. The only exception to this was during what I’ll call “seasons of the supernatural”, times when God was interrupting the normal service with manifestations of His presence. I’ve lived through some of those times of refreshing, and they deeply impacted my life.
Now, for balance sake, let me stress here that I’m not saying things like prayer and teaching aren’t important, because they are. And I do not believe we should simply attend gatherings for what we can get out of them. That is admittedly self-centered of us, and is part of the consumerist attitude we have developed toward church. I guess what I’m saying is that in recent years I’ve learned that sometimes what God places in our hearts actually points us to the priorities–just like our deepest dreams are often a good signal as to what God wants us to do with our lives.
I’ve said all this because I don’t think I’m the only one who feels this way about church services. I’m sure many of you can relate. What I’m saying is maybe what we love most about the church gives us a clue as to how the church should be shaped.
I know I can only speak for myself, and I don’t have any research evidence to prove this…but it seems to me that in most cases the thing we like least about church (the service) is the thing being given the highest priority. Church has somehow become all about the event and not about the people–and quite often, not even about God.
By contrast, again speaking for myself…if I were to compile the priorities of my heart about church, these three things are the things that make church special to me:
- The manifest presence of Jesus (God)
- Fellowship with other believers (the people)
- Having something to do (a part to play in the mission)
Oh…wait…isn’t this pretty much how the Scriptures describe the early church? Hmmm…..so maybe this isn’t about my selfish desires about church. Maybe my love for hanging out with people before and after service isn’t just about being social. Maybe my love for the manifest presence of God isn’t just about chasing signs and wonders. Maybe my love for having something to do in church is not narcissism. If I’m not the only one who feels this way…if this reflects the desire of a significant number of other believers…then maybe this is a reflection of our spiritual DNA as Christ-followers.
And maybe “church” needs to be re-shaped according to these priorities. Maybe then it will be more than a duty to perform.
So don’t leave me hanging here. Anyone else relate to this?
Wayward Son
Musician. Composer. Recovering perfectionist. Minister-in-transition. Lover of puns. Hijacker of rock song references. Questioner of the status quo.
I'm not really a rebel. Just a sincere Christ-follower with a thirst for significance that gets me into trouble. My quest has taken me over the fence of institutional Christianity. Here are some of my random thoughts along the way. Read along, join in the conversation. Just be nice.
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Jeff,
I’m with you on this.
1) Nothing can compare to being in the presence of God. Absolutely nothing!!
2) I love fellowshipping with other believers, when I can find some mature ones to fellowship with. (This can be a real task, at least in the IC.)
3) There are few things more powerful than taking part in the ministry of Christ. Preaching/teaching the Word of God is one of my favorite things to do.
But, it’s been years since I’ve been able to do all of this in a “church building”. I’m just thankful that I can get into God’s presence anywhere/anytime. I’m also thankful that I’m married to a mature believer who I know I can have good fellowship with.
Blessings,
Gary
There are parts of the “church service” that I like and parts that I could do without. Like you, what I like the most, and what is many times most beneficial, is the interaction with others.
I’d much rather be in a group, discussing things and bouncing ideas off each other and just hanging out than sitting in a row listening to someone lecture.
Jeff,
You have written/write many, many wonderful posts…but I have to say, this has got to be one of your bests! Seriously!
As I was reading along, when I read the sentence…
“Do you know what my favorite part of church was–and still is?”
…before I got to what you stated as your answer, “The People” is exactly what I said in my mind!!
It’s so true.
Like you, besides going for God, the #2 thing was being with/spending time with people. Like you, I’d go early to services, and stay long after services or go to lunches out with friends/people…just to have time with them.
To me, it was all about relationship. With God. With others.
And, that’s exactly what LIFE is about, too.
Again, Jeff. Excellent post!
Blessings,
~Amy 🙂
Ouch! You are SOOOOOOOO honest! I enjoy a good sermon once in awhile, but I have to say, I’m with you on pretty much every point. We spend way too much time on the “service” and for the most part, we get the least amount of return on this investment of our resources. As someone who is still operating within the confines of the “Institution” (double entendre intentional) I believe we would do better to focus more of our efforts and resources on creating community rather than trying to “create” a spiritual atmosphere or a particular “slick feel” about our “services”.
Meditate on this I will…yes…
Jeff this is the best description of what a gathering should look like that I have read yet. I loved the simple 3 points. Wow.
Jeff,
You have been reading my mind again. It’s getting kinda scary.
Seriously though, this is good stuff. Keep it coming.
I kind of relate to it, but probably differently than you. Church for me is far more boring when it is about entertainment. When it is just about us, the flock, and not so much about the shepherd. Its just too narcissistic for my taste.
At the same time, it isn’t always exciting to participate in corporate worship/praise of an invisible and sometimes silent Deity. Compared to paintball, it could easily be considered downright boring to speak/sing to an invisible being about how great they are. Even more surreal is to consider the act of worship which Jesus commanded. The unbloody sacrifice after the pattern of Melchizedek. When you step back and look at the oddity of it all, no wonder Richard Dawkins thinks Christians are nuts.
It kind of makes one wonder what the OT priests thought of their job slitting the throats of animals, blood dripping down all around. Kind of an odd way to worship a god. Personally, I don’t think they really enjoyed it, but they kept doing it century after century. Personally, I’m glad, because it pointed to a deeper mystery and helped in an odd sort of way to make it easier to understand.
MB
While I certainly agree that we can and DO connect with God in all places in and out side of a Church – I am a bit on the other side.
I actually enjoy going to Church. My participation in liturgy of the worship of God is very enjoyable to me. As Lightbearer said, nothing can compare to being in the Divine Presence.
Just last night I was talking to one of the Brothers in my Order about a possible Provincial meeting in Oklahoma, we were both looking forward to the chance to pray our Office together.
I also enjoy the fellowship before and after service, but then we tend to have short sermons…
Gary,
I think of these three priorities, the thing that most hijacks the value of church services is that the third one (participation) is largely missing. Unless you *are* the one preaching or doing music, or a limited number of other tasks, you are primarily a spectator. I think that’s should tell us, not that we should do away with church meetings (we shouldn’t), but we should re-think them.
Co-heir,
I, too, like the discussion element, and that’s how we normally do house church. Where we got the idea that teaching/preaching is the only way to disseminate the Word of God, I don’t know. 🙂 I don’t think we should do away with it, but I think it could make way for other methods if we shift our priorities.
Amy, thanks for the encouragement. It’s so obvious to me that the fellowship is so key to the church…especially since Jesus told us it would be how the world would identify us (by our love for one another).
Steve,
Good. Meditate on this, you should. (a-la Yoda) 🙂
Bless you, brother, and I agree wholeheartedly about creating community more than slick presentations.
Barb,
Believe it or not, I didn’t start the post with those three points in mind. As I rambled on, I just saw them within what I’d written. Cool how God does stuff like that.
Mark,
I’ve been told I’m prophetic. 🙂 Thanks for the encouragement, bro.
MamasBoy,
There’s simply too much to say to your reference to the OT priests to put in a comment, so maybe there will be a post on it soon. In the meantime, I think the entertainment factor really is part of the problem with church services because it makes us spectators and consumers rather than participants. As I mentioned to Lightbearer above, I think services would be a lot more palatable if they gave us more a part to play in the mission.
M-I-T,
I honestly can understand the liturgical form having a bit more value, simply because…you are *participating* in it. 🙂 So it doesn’t suprise me that you enjoy it, because you are actively engaged in worship with it. And as we’ve discussed apart from this blog, it isn’t worth anything if it isn’t coming from the heart.
God bless.
I relate a bit Jeff.. when I was younger I liked church services better because I was in such a learning mode. The pastor was a great teacher and I felt that I learned something important each weak. The worship was great and the Spirit seemed present.
As I have gotten older the teaching seems to be rote and the worship not so great. I think it is probably more of a seasonal thing.. and maybe age related.. for me anyway.
Jeff,
I agree. We shouldn’t do away with church meetings. But, it’s just hard to find these elements in most church meetings.
Rethinking them, and waiting on God is definitely necessary.
Blessings,
Gary
Let me say that the man that is not born of God, will see the church service (preaching of the word, prayer, worship in song) as boring. I have experienced the same feelings, and honestly the only reason I went to church for a while was the social aspect of it… All my friends were there, and I suppose I was being “godly.” It wasn’t til the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to see that He is Holy and I am wretched that I treasured the preaching of the Word. Only then did I start going to church to grow in grace expecting the Word to pierce my heart and thus enjoy the benefits of the gospel. Yes Fellowship is important. We must know eachother and love each other, but we must not stray away from the centrality of Scripture in our church service. The preaching of the Word is what saves sinners and keeps sinner. Yes I do believe that that can happen in our fellowship, but I also believe that the gift of preaching and teaching has been given to certain men, and thus it is important to hear the Word preached to us. I imagine we must also find ourselves a church where their is sound doctrine… There are far too many churches where the preaching of the word is weak and thus, yes it could be rather boring. okay… those are just my thoughts… May Jesus be exalted in all that we do and say! Blessing to you!
J. C. Hahne
KB,
An interesting observation about relating your interest in the service to age. 🙂 A slightly different tack comes to me. Think this over…
In our current spectator formats of church, someone young in the faith might actually thrive at first, because they naturally in receiving mode and want to take in as much as they can. But over time, maybe people stop wanting to just listen and start wanting a more significant role to play. Some will find that more significant role in our current structures…but many more people never will. That’s just the way it’s set up. Just a thought…
J.C.,
Thanks for coming and sharing your thoughts.
Let me clarify for you that in no way am I attempting to devalue the Word, worship, or prayer in the life of Christ-followers or the church. If you look through this blog, you’ll find a recurring theme that what we are questioning is not the priniciples or underpinnings of Scripture, but the methods we use to fulfill these principles. Prayer, worship, the Word…these are principles that should not be compromised. But the way we approach these things, the way we implement them…these are subject to change, and should be changed when our current methods are deemed ineffective.
We are so used to “doing church” a certain way that we think this is the only way to do it–and we somehow think people have always viewed church the way we do today, through the lens of our western mindset. I guess what I’m trying to say here is that while prayer, instruction and worship are all critical to our discipleship, we have wrongfully made church all about the event itself (the service), when church was never supposed to be something we *do*, but something we *are*. It’s more than just being social or fellowshiping; it’s about forming deep community out of which all these other things naturally flow.
Not too many folks go for a masters or PHD because (I think) that the desire to learn via lecture is not as great as we get older. Maybe it is the same with teaching in church services? Maybe it is a Hebrews 5:11-14 thing? Maybe it is just a part of spiritual growth for many of us?
Yes I definitely agree it’s not about the “event”… Obviously the church isn’t to be a show. We are to be building up one another, glorifying and enjoying God.
I live in Romania and thus have seen different forms of church services, and many of them are just as dead as the ones you’ve been talking about. Yes you can change the traditional way you do things but it must be centered on the Word of God, the preaching of Jesus Christ.
I hope to visit more often to get to know and read more of your articles… Hopefully we will be an encouragement to one another to grow stronger in our faith and love for God.
J. C. Hahne